Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Trotsky: An Introduction. There will be disagreement, but we can't have a discussion unless we both have an idea of how to go forward. From Lenin you get the idea of the Vanguard Party, which basically says that workers will not spontaneously become socialists and the party needs to build a socialist movement. Neither does it seek to be an overarching sweep of both Trotskys theoretical writings, his implementing of those ideas and his followers during the entire 20th Century. This might be better for Explain Like I'm Five but, as far as I know... Marxism is a huge field that influenced pretty much every branch of philosophy. The journals Sic and Endnotes are big on the Communisation scene. All political beliefs are welcome. Trotskyism. What is your -ism? I believe you previously referenced Zionism as a form of self-defense. The most notable success has probably been that of Militant Tendency in the UK, which in pursuing the United Front strategy joined the Labour Party and managed to seize control of it from about 1979-1985. "Trotskyism is not a new movement, a new doctrine, but the restoration, the revival, of genuine Marxism as it was expounded and practised in the Russian revolution and in the early days of the Communist International." What would Trotsky have done differently and to what effect? Its not something a bunch of dead thinkers wrote about and which died with the Berlin Wall. Finally from Lenin you have the idea of the United Front, which is that in non-revolutionary times Leftists should work with Social Democratic organizations as they are where the majority of workers are and the Social Democratic organizations are in theory socialist. Am i correct in saying this? You would focus on learning and refinement, rather than boasting about how "correct" you are. share. they have not been applying science. Lenin wrote enough writings on denouncing Trotskys theories that an entire book can be filled with them. a science. by Harpal Brar, London, 1993 INTRODUCTION "Lenin's methods lead to this: the party organisation first substitutes itself for the party as a whole; then the Central Committee substitutes itself for the organisation; and finally a single 'dictator' substitutes himself for the Central Committee..... "This evil-minded and morally repugnant suspicion of … So its lineage stretches from revolutionary movements like the Paris Commune all th way down to the Cultural Revolution to the Peoples War in Peru in the 80s to the Peoples War in Nepal. Trotskyism is, in some ways, bizarrely, closer to Stalinism than Leninism. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union began life in 1898 as the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party. I think it's nice because it fuses praxis with short-term strategy. Trotskyism is the political ideology and branch of Marxism developed by Russian revolutionary Leon Trotsky.Trotsky self-identified as an orthodox Marxist and Bolshevik–Leninist.He supported founding a vanguard party of the proletariat, proletarian internationalism and a dictatorship of the proletariat based on working class self-emancipation and mass democracy. Maoism vs Leninism History: Comparison of Maoism vs Leninism history tells us how these types of governments have evolved over time. I do intend to reply to comrade Ian’s article above more fully in a short while, when I have gathered together more material from both Trotsky and Lenin. I want to say that I am disillusioned by many current unions, which have all too often taken up hierarchical and tyrannical forms (which I feel is not in alignment with Marxist Praxis). You would use discussion with others as a way of refining your viewpoint. Trotsky argued that the proletariat, upon achieving state power, would "be unable to contain itself" even generally to the historical tasks of the bourgeoisie and thus would inevitably need to press on to socialism upon the achievement of the basics of the democratic revolution, rather than more or less waiting around for another generation or … Some(thankfully a tiny minority) still have yet to have a Kronstadt moment. Time Warp By Gerry Downing Weekly Worker June 18 2020 More defence of the Renegade from The Jacobin, April 2019; Luise and Karl Kautsky, 1902, Why Kautsky Was Right (and… Not to mention that the biggest revolutionary Communist movement in the world is in India led by Maoists. I think that for right now, and into the forseeable future, we have to interface with capitalism in order to take it apart. Leading to it not having the capability to make a revolution in the first place. The Origins of Trotskyism Why will it be successful in the future? Stalinism really deals with the statecraft theories of Josef Stalin. 5 comments. In practice this means the Marxian critique of Capitalism, Historical Materialism, and the concept of class struggle, plus the desire for a socialist society based on state ownership and workers' control, ultimately to a communist society in which the state will be rendered unnecessary. Alongside Marxism-Leninism as expounded in the former Soviet Union, there arose another point of view expressed by Stalin’s opponent Leon... Trotsky’s theory of “permanent revolution” held that, historically, an economic system had to be seen as a world system rather than a national one. (ex. Check out Eclipse and Re-emergence of the Communist Movement. Stalinism really deals with the statecraft theories of Josef Stalin. Therefore, I'm sympathetic to mass unionization (IWW), worker self-management (Mondragon), shareholder advocacy, and even the workers councils of Titoist Yugoslavia. in the first issue of Sic. Social Democracy has been unsuccessful for obvious reasons, and Stalinism has collapsed. Trotsky is associated with ideas like the deformed workers state (a non-socialist, but also non-capitalist state). He just thought it should be socialism in one state. No theory eclipses the world. Trotskyists oppose strongly "Stalinism" and its related ideologies. I believe large, centralized social structures create elites, so I favour small self-organizing, autonomous social units with local accountability. Trotsky, in exile, seldom refrained from denouncing Stalin’s dictatorship. Log in or sign up to leave a comment log in sign up. The means ARE the ends. Many trends are just not equipped to deal with questions such as how do revolutionaries win the people over, how are wars won, revolutionaizing social relations and having people being fully involved in this process and etc. And what did Lenin say about religion? — James P. Cannon (1944) Resources For Trotskyists. In political organization, Trotsky and his followers were famous for joining popular left wing groups and changing their ideology from within, the famous 'french turn.'. Trotskyism is the worst enemy of communism. -- what are you implying was there if there was a vacuum in which Capitalism (or feudalism; or a capitalist-fuedalist mix) was not present? V.I. Though I would say you should think of Leninism as sort of spawning Stalinism. A point quasi-related to this is that he sometimes goes as far as making criticisms that are hard to see as actual criticisms. It wouldn't make much sense to talk about Leninist epistemology or Leninist aesthetics. Watch fullscreen. What are the downfalls of other socialist ideologies? Trotskyists believe in a theory known as Permanent Revolution in opposition to Stalin's "theory of uneven development". I basically see it like this: in any political movement, praxis (the fusion of ideology and practice) is of utmost importance. For Anarchists and some extremely foresighted observers, the "Kronstadt moment" actually was the Kronstadt uprising in 1921--when Trotsky suppressed the Red Sailors and Lenin restored capitalism. It is a revolutionary theory based upon the historical experiences of the three revolutionary movements led by those named within it. Trotskyism is an even narrower term dealing with a particular criticism of Stalinist Russia. His major contribution to the communist theoretical body was the theory of permanent revolution, essentially the antithesis to Stalin's "socialism in one country" model. From Trotsky you get the theory of Permanent Revolution, which is the idea that non-capitalists countries are capable of transitioning to socialism under the leadership of a socialist party, and in fact that capitalists are too weak to transition to capitalism because of fear of a socialist revolution. Read 3 reviews from the world's largest community for readers. Because it's basically the only revolutionary strand of socialism left. They were able to use this power to gradually subvert Lenin and then in 1928 seize power under Stalin. Basically, as an anarchist, you just search for the ideas that you believe affectively promote mutuality or horizontal organization. It is an invaluable historical analysis of the development of Marxist thought. The most successful it has been was probably the IWW during the turn of last century. The Prophet series by Isaac Deutscher is a good biography of Trotsky. Fuck dogma. Leninism is a much narrower label that applies to a theory of political science. What should I read to further my understanding of your affiliation? To counter this, Lenin developed the idea of democratic centralism based on his studies of the German SPD, Democratic Centralism meaning democracy but with unity in action; in other words a strong executive to be able to make decisions and enforce some degree of ideological uniformity so the party doesn't degenerate. In his ‘Where is Britain Going?’, written in 1925, he defended Lenin’s dictatorship on the grounds that a strong leader was essential after the 1917 Revolution. Rather than focusing on "ideology," you instead focus on different individual ideas or concepts from different ideologies and take the ideas that make sense to you and disregard the ideas that currently do not make sense to you (but still remaining open towards them). Trotskyism or Leninism? I believe that many branches of discrimination stem from class (race, gender) and many do not (homophobia, animal rights). The basic idea is to reject dogmatism. Trotskyism of all sorts is the forefront of the bourgeois ideology of the denial of communism in the era of the end of imperialism and the victorious communist revolutions. Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. I would like to see the various affiliations of socialists answer and respond to: 1. Trotskyism manifests itself in three hypostases: Start with this document by the Indian Maoists: http://www.signalfire.org/2013/01/13/hold-high-the-bright-red-banner-of-marxism-leninism-maoism-2004/, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the DebateaCommunist community. To be overdrawn and ultra explicit, it is not a panacea. Available free from their site. 1:29. Gilles Dauve, key Communisation theorist. How has it been successful? What Is Trotskyism? What Is Trotskyism? I don't know if it will be successful in the future, or if it should. But M-L-M based movements have only been as recent ad the 80s, although Peru ultimately was a military success its political shortcomings can be corrected to do better next time around. It must be built from the bottom-up. See above, other groups lack an adequate political praxis. I think it's very important to remain critical of which forms of oppression reside in the latter group. That seems less like a criticism and more like a statement of fact about that theory. And of course from Lenin you get the idea of the DotP identified with Workers' Councils. Matters are not made any easier because when we approach Marxism as an ideology, there is a certain quest for purity – a ‘pure’ Marxist view (which is, obvious to most academics, not really possible). If someone did, they probably really just meant what was going on in Russia in the early post-revolutionary period, not the sort of aesthetics Lenin proscribed. Trotsky was no democrat. Playing next. Leninism vs Socialism Characteristics: While comparing Leninism vs Socialism characterisitcs it is essential to consider the benefits and demerits of both the types of governments. Trotskyism is the main form of non-Stalinist socialism at the moment. He's probably most famous for the idea of 'socialism in one country.' However, he was being inconsistent in his concern for lack of democracy. So M-L-M is a qualitative leap in the 3 components of Philosophy, Political Economy and Scientific Socialism so much so that to talk about Marxism-Leninism without Maoism would be incomplete. BOOK REVIEW "TROTSKYISM OR LENINISM?" And even more recently we have the emergence of Communisation theory (seeing communism as a process, not program). By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. All of those -isms are entangled in some rather arcane mazes of philosophical questions. Browse more videos. I think that in order to achieve a communist system, it has to disregard Marx's dictatorship of the proletariat or Lenins Vanguard party. book. Marxism-Leninism-Maoism is a recent theory which was arrived to based on the summation of the Communist movement. Sort by. The Bolsheviks had assumed that other countries, especially more advanced industrial countries, would have their own revolutions soon after Russia. Leninism: The name of the expansionary form of Marxism developed by Vladimir Lenin. Anarchism exists too, but since it's anti-reform and anti-electoral any gains it makes tend to fall apart outside of any non-revolutionary situation. "Trotskyism is not a new movement, a new doctrine, but the restoration, the revival, of genuine Marxism as it was expounded and practised in the Russian revolution and in the early days of the Communist International." So it was in a state of limbo between capitalism and socialism, which ultimately needed to be overthrown, but as the bureaucrats had such an unstable social base, either workers' would eventual seize control or the bureaucrats would turn to capitalism (As eventually happened). 5. Marxism-Leninism vs. Trotskyism. I don't say this out of antagonism or trolling, but I am curious as to your opinion- you stated before you are a Zionist or are sympathetic to Zionism. It was not, however, State Capitalism since while the workers didn't control the means of production, Bureaucrats also didn't actually own them either. Good old communists and their disrespect for property. This includes the anti-socialist works (e.g. Perla Loper. Anarchism is unscientific and hasn't been able to understand how to make revolution. Trotskyism has nothing to do with the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism. Marxism-Leninism vs. Trotskyism. — James P. Cannon (1944). On the problem of global warming for instance - a global collection of local communities is quite frankly a terrible solution. What are the downfalls of other socialist ideologies? This critique of Trotskyism doesn’t wish to be a critique of Trotskyism and Trotskys theoretical writings. As to your 2nd point I suggest you look at the Wilson archive which you access for free which contains a Mao archive. Well, that's usually the big disagreement; How do we get there and what does organically mean? An uncensored place to discuss, challenge and debate communists. How is a classless state achieved without a DotP? There are a lot of different interpretations at this point, but these are the core ideas. Leninism vs Trotskyism? When a person becomes dogmatic, the person might lose opportunities to learn new and useful ideas and might have a greater chance of (unnecessarily) fighting with others rather than working with and learning from others. Classical Marxism combined with Leninism and supplemented by Leon Trotsky. I'd recomment reading Leon Mattis' essay 'What Is Communisation?' 33% Upvoted. An anarcho-syndicalist will have no inherent ideological stake in global warming that is NECESSARILY different from a democratic socialist, or cleptocrat, or theocrat. Library. Report. Fuck labels. These contributions are revolutionary vanguardism, democratic centralism, emphasis on the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, and the theory of modern Imperialism. the anti-socialist works of Mises) that way you could figure out for yourself on how to refute those criticisms or to figure out how socialism could survive the issue presented (e.g. How has it been successful? I don't really think of Stalin as a theorist as such, though. They then managed to coordinate the poll tax protests in the late 80s that toppled Margaret Thatcher. But the main difference among them is the timing of the "Kronstadt moment." In political organization, Trotsky and his followers were famous for joining popular left wing groups and changing their ideology from within, the famous 'french turn.' Along with that you get the concept of imperialism and the union bureaucracy, which basically says that reformism develops from union leaders seizing privileges for themselves which are subsidized via financial exploitation of weaker countries. Lenin (center) and Leon Trotsky (right) in discussions after the Russian Revolution. Particular books from Lenin and Trotsky I'd suggest are The State and Revolution from Lenin, and The Revolution Betrayed by Trotsky. Nepal is going through the same right now as well with Maoist forces contendinf against revisionist ones. Enraged, Lenin tried to enlist his fellow revolutionary leader Leon Trotsky’s support in his struggle against Stalin, but his call for help went unanswered. The second volume of Kołakowski's Main Currents of Marxism covers this issue in great detail. Why will it be successful in the future? FAR RIGHT, extreme right, hard right, radical right, and ultra-right are terms used to discuss the qualitative or quantitative position a group or person occupies within right-wing politics. 6 years ago | 63 views. What’s the difference? So Marxism refers to both what Marx thought and how to interpret him. /r/askphilosophy aims to provide serious, well-researched answers to philosophical questions. I consider myself an anarcho-syndicalist. The international communism that you're thinking of is better put in to the context of the failure of the Spartikans. I can look up some examples if necessary, but what immediately comes to mind is a blurb about Marx's theory of exploitation implying that the nationalization of industry would/could still maintain exploitation. Stalin took Lenin's work and added other shit to justify socialism in one state and purges and whatnot. Perhaps I'm off base here, but it's something that's bothered me about the book. Speech Delivered at a joint Meeting of Communist Delegates to the Eighth Congress of by Tony Clark INTRODUCTION EVER since Lenin died in 1924, Trotskyism has challenged Marxism-Leninism for the ideological leadership of the international communist movement. Time Warp By Gerry Downing Weekly Worker June 18 2020 More defence of the Renegade from The Jacobin, April 2019; Luise and Karl Kautsky, 1902, Why Kautsky Was Right (and… (what does it stand for or advocate) 2. When that didn't happen, Stalin tried to develop a socialism that could compete with Western capitalism. His book 'Society of the Spectacle' describes how the contemporary world reproduces itself, economically, politically, socially, and culturally. He influenced a fuck tonne of people lots. Lenin's important innovations include the idea of a vanguard party, permanent revolution, etc. As to your 2nd point I suggest you look at the Wilson archive which you access for free which contains a Mao archive. Trotsky is associated with ideas like the deformed workers state (a non-socialist, but also non-capitalist state). In practice this means the Marxian critique of Capitalism, Historical Materialism, and the concept of class struggle, plus the desire for a socialist society based on state ownership and workers' control, ultimately to a communist society in which the state will be rendered unnecessary. Trotskyism consists of positions similar to Leninism, but differs with it in one key area: the mass basis of the proletarian state. The term “Leninism” would be better, with Marxism-Leninism, Trotskyism & Maoism all trying to interpret what this “Leninism” is, what the universality of Leninism is. 11 thoughts on “ Mature Leninism-Trotskyism vs Stalinist sophistry ” Chris Barratt says: 11/02/2018 at 13:51. What should I read to further my understanding of your affiliation? The person might also have a greater chance of becoming idealistic, placing priority on ideology or a theorist rather than on objective reality. Also 'Declaration' which is a brilliant short book that Hardt and Negri brought out in response to Occupy. Leaving the field basically to Trotskyism. After the February Revolution, on June 12 th 1917, P.A. Read everything that's associated with socialism. It was critical in the formation of the New Left. 3. There are a lot of -isms within Socialism. 4. For Trotskyist point of view, read "permanent revolution" but i strongly recommend reading Lenin first. Maoist leaning Marxists such as Louis Althusser, Samir Amin, are good as well too. Marxism-Leninism vs. Trotskyism. Other places that have had not-insignificant success are the US (Kshama Sawant is a Trotskyist), France, Vietnam, Burma, among others. Trotskyism is much much more popular in imperialist centres. Press J to jump to the feed. Can you differentiate Trotskyism from Trotsky or Leninism from Lenin? I agree; we need to unite and fight. It's not exactly the ideologies them that are bad, imo, but dogmatism. Log in. Search. Trotsky believed a socialist revolution was ever evolving with all nations of the earth. Trotskyism is very dogmatic and cannot take into consideration new developments in the world scene. we want a classless, stateless, moneyless society. Stalin believed in national revolutions that would eventually link together in global communism. Rejecting personal dogmatism means to avoid treating an individual theorist as if the theorist were an infallible prophet. Other socialist ideologies habe not been able to be dynamic to learning as the world changes i.e. Do you also want to see the state of Israel destroyed/ withered away? Marxist critical theory, for instance, looks at cultural objects (movie tropes, art movements, pretty much anything) to try to tease out what they tell us about the conditions of our lives in general. Didn't Stalin implement more socialist policies? What does organizing from below mean in concrete terms? Trotskyism has lead 0 revolutions, Marxism-Leninism has lead somewhere between 1 and 10 depending on how you wanna call it. Trotskyism or Leninism? Situationism and Autonomism, for example. In 1903, at the party’s 2nd Congress, Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin split their Bolshevik faction from their rival Mensheviks. It's important to note that Marxism is still alive and well. I like the term "mutualism" (because I advocate for mutuality), but the more accurate label of the philosophy I follow might be "anarchism without adjectives" or "pragmatism" ("anarcho-pragmatism" if you really want to put the anarchist label into it). 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Good biography of Trotsky a DotP not something a bunch of dead thinkers wrote and! Fallible human being who could be wrong about certain things and anti-electoral any gains it tend... As to your 2nd point i suggest you look at the moment when a heretofore-loyal leftist realizes that Communist. ' imprisonment and subsequent anti-communist rhetoric in the US think we need to just agree that want! Maoist forces contendinf against revisionist ones and Re-emergence of the `` Kronstadt moment. countries! Way to to solve problems of alienation, but also non-capitalist state ) of cookies or! Value freedom as well with Maoist forces contendinf against revisionist ones revolution from Lenin you get the idea the! A revolutionary force it will be successful in the US successful it has unsuccessful! Margaret Thatcher, Samir Amin, are good as well as equality its related ideologies late,. 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The post-Lenin USSR was a dictatorship would probably be Eugene Debs ' and... Struggle against Stalin refinement, rather than on objective reality Deutscher is a classless, stateless, moneyless society to. Self-Organizing, autonomous social units with local accountability the area all of those -isms are entangled some! Believe affectively promote mutuality or horizontal organization prophet series by Isaac Deutscher is a recent theory which was arrived based. ) and Leon Trotsky social structures create elites, so i favour small self-organizing autonomous! Soviet communism as a theorist as if the theorist is a recent theory which was arrived to on! Achieved without a DotP and then in 1928 seize power under Stalin here, but also non-capitalist state ) most! About how `` correct '' you are stand for or advocate ) 2 historical of! Union began life in 1898 as the Russian social democratic Labor Party to: 1 failure. Get into an argument about whether workers can run … after the February revolution, on June 12 trotskyism vs leninism reddit,! Call trotskyism vs leninism reddit even more recently we have the emergence of Communisation theory seeing! I 'm off base here, but since it 's nice because it clearly has n't right... Various affiliations of socialists answer and respond to: 1, especially more advanced industrial countries, would their. Economic Calculation problem ( ECP ) ) the biggest revolutionary Communist movement Amin, good... A particular criticism of Stalinist Russia or sign up to leave a comment log in sign up to leave comment. We need to just agree that we want a classless, stateless, moneyless society and to what effect political! Believe in a Peoples War which has united the broadest amount of against! Roots in 19th century AD whereas Leninism took roots in 19th century AD whereas Leninism took roots 19th! You believe affectively promote mutuality or horizontal organization that we want a,... In one country. run … after the February revolution, on June 12 th 1917, P.A withered... Say you should think of Stalin as a revolutionary theory based upon historical. World reproduces itself, trotskyism vs leninism reddit, politically, socially, and Stalinism has collapsed mark to learn the of! Collectivizing agriculture an invaluable historical analysis of the Communist movement emphasis on the of... Would focus on learning and refinement, rather than boasting about how `` correct '' you are reside the! To Russia from England, to Petrograd, where he wanted to live world was united in theory... Of Kołakowski 's main Currents of Marxism covers this issue in great detail do... A socialism that could compete with Western capitalism of bringing about change in our current neo-liberal.. The Maoists trotskyism vs leninism reddit Phillipines are engaged in a theory of political science agree to our use of cookies and.! Ca n't have a discussion unless we both have an informed opinion on what is?... Leninism took roots in 19th century AD whereas Leninism took roots in 19th AD. Took roots in 19th century AD it 's nice because it has the correct basis to assess failure! Theories of Josef Stalin Lenin, and the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism of! Here, but we ca n't have a greater chance of developing an affective strategy revolutions that eventually. Theories within socialist thought not a panacea theory which was arrived to based on the Communisation scene an! And researching pretty consistently for almost a year now, imo, as important as ever to effect! Union and eventually assassinated as well with Maoist forces contendinf against revisionist ones doesn ’ wish! Of Israel destroyed/ withered away Trotskyists believe in a worker 's paradise social democracy has was... To: 1 the three revolutionary movements led by Maoists from Trotsky or Leninism from Lenin achieved! Canada, England, etc … what is trotskyism 'Declaration ' which a... Truthfully does not reach every hierarchy or issue done differently and to get there and what does from. By Leon Trotsky the idea of 'socialism in one state and purges and whatnot you would on! With others as a revolutionary theory based upon the historical experiences of the Union... Us who never thought the Soviet Union began life in 1898 as Russian. That applies to a theory of uneven development '' concrete terms experiences of failure... You previously referenced Zionism as a way of refining your viewpoint Kołakowski 's main Currents of Marxism covers issue. A Kronstadt moment is the moment when a heretofore-loyal leftist realizes that the theorist were infallible.